Best known in theatre circles for his acclaimed play JIS LAHORE NAHIN DEKHYA WOH JAMIYA NAHI (1989), award-winning writer Asghar Wajahat speaks here about his new play GANDHIGODSE.COM and reminds us of how religion is co-opted by the State for political reasons alone. Listening to Professor Wajahat, who teaches at the Department of Hindi at Delhi's Jamia Millia Islamia University, we realise yet again that it is humanity that matters above all. Professor Wajahat is not just a playwright; he has also written stories, novels, articles, television scripts and a travelogue. He keeps an informative website that will give you more details about him and his work.
By Deepa Punjani
Deepa Punjani (DP): Tell us about your new play GANDHIGODSE.COM
Asghar Wajahat (AW): GANDHIGODSE.COM which I have written is being directed by Tom Alter and he has named the play YADI. The play will open in Ahemdabad on January 30. The first show was in Hyderabad. The play raises relevant issues in the context of our recent socio-political situation. It addresses communal issues, the issue of development in our country and the idea of democracy. The play's plot is mainly focused on Gandhi having a conversation with Godse. Gandhi has survived the bullet and he decides to visit Godse in prison. This is how the play opens and it takes the form of a dialogue. It is only through dialogue that we can hope to achieve something. Hence Gandhi seeks to understand Godse and wants to hear him. He hopes that Godse will do the same too. Hindutva is not what Hinduism is. In the play I have shown that both Gandhi and Godse regard the Gita as a great text; yet their views are so different. It's the same book. You wonder how these two people have imbibed the message of the Gita in such diametrically opposite ways. Ideologies like Hindutva pit people against each other. So let us debate this. If on the one hand we want to do away with communalism and communal elections, how can we let these exist?
The play also questions the development model that India adopted after Independence. It was not in line with Gandhi's philosophy at all. Gandhi believed in empowering the local people. Development cannot be imposed. It has to be thought together with the people, the supposed beneficiaries. Consider the midday meal scheme that our government has. Has it bothered to find out if this scheme is actually helpful to the people it is meant for? Development in our country cannot be top down. It has to begin at the grassroots. The five-year plans post Independence didn't really help. In the play, there is an instance of a hand-pump being fitted in a village. But what will the people do if it stops working? How will they fix it? Have the Engineers explained the people? The Engineers say that they don't understand the language of the people.
Then there's the question of a Western-styled democracy as against a system of democracy of our own. Gandhi was never in favour of democratic models imported from the West. In fact he had wanted the Congress to be dissolved. He wanted a model which would truly serve the people. Service and governance are not one and the same thing. So the play is like a socio-political commentary on these issues. Then there is a sub-plot about a young couple. The girl is a staunch follower of Gandhi but she is in love. Now we know Gandhi had very strong views about marriage and sex. These are some of the complex bits about Gandhi's personality. His own relationship with Kasturba was very disturbed and unhappy. So the play also critiques this.
DP: I am curious why Tom Alter has called the play YADI. It conveys nothing of the original title. Also, has there not been a Gujarati production of the play? I recall seeing it at the NCPA early this year.
AW: I can't say that I am happy with the title and neither was the producer. We spoke about it and we told Tom Alter that it was very vague. Nimesh Desai directed the play in Gujarati. He also changed the title and called it HU CHOO. I can understand if the title is difficult to access given our regional pluralities, which might have been the case with JIS LAHORE NAHIN DEKHYA...but even in the Kannada translation of JIS LAHORE... SR Hegde has kept the title intact.
DP: You spoke at the Shivaji Mandir auditorium recently about Religion, Communalism and Violence.
AW: Yes. Religion is a question of one's faith but what has happened is that it has become politicised. Invariably that leads to communal clashes and violence will follow. I think we need to really debate what does it mean to be religious? I referred to my play JIS LAHORE NAHIN DEKHYA...in the talk. If we would actually introspect, we would realize that we fight over religion when we know little about it except that we are born into it. We tend to follow the rituals more and the religion less. Religious gatherings are like shows where money is pumped. What has that got to do with faith? I went to Iran and I saw a number of shrines that sparkled like gold. These shrines are of people who while they lived led very simple lives. When religion becomes State, there's a problem. There's a short story I had written in which a Hindu is constructing a temple high into the sky, and a Muslim is also constructing the mosque similarly. The height of the temple and the mosque are symbolic of the ladders to God. When both are done and reach God's abode, they see only one God. So they ask him if that if he is the one God, why should he have created two different religions. To which God answers that 'I wanted to know which among you is the more stupid.'
The Muslims of the subcontinent created Pakistan, their own country. Are they happy? Do they live peacefully with each other? No. Each sect is fighting with the other: Sunnis against the Shias, the Wahabis against the Barevlis...it goes on. And if we are going to create a State based on religion, we will also have to then face the questions: Who is a good Hindu? And, who is not? So, it would ultimately mean that if you are a good Hindu, only then will you have a stake in the State. It will all be about power.
DP: JIS LAHORE NAHIN DEKHYA...continues to be performed. But what do you feel about the play today? Does it continue to be relevant and which has been your most memorable production of the play?
AW: JIS LAHORE NAHIN DEKHYA...is actually not just about the Partition. There are scenes in the play that speak of empathy, sharing and love, best epitomised in the grandmother's character. K Kantesh from Karnataka is about to do it. My most memorable production of the play has to be Habib Tanvir's. Habib Tanvir did this play with actors of the Sri Ram Centre's repertory in Delhi. He didn't do it with his group of actors. The production was so successful that Panna Bharat Ram was able to run the repertory with the production. Otherwise he was on the brink of closing it. Then there's another memorable message that I received about the play when it was done in Sydney. A woman attended a show with her relatives. She was to undergo a procedure for her eyes as they were dry. It was a condition. I can't recall what it's called. Anyway, the woman cried so much on seeing the play because she had lived through similar experiences during the Partition. The following day, she didn't require the surgery after all.
DP: That's like Art doing a quantifiable, good turn.
AW: I have also realised that the time is past to be vocal about your philosophy and your beliefs through speeches and other obvious forms. Art is the best way to do it.
DP: What was it like when you were growing up? What influenced you and when did you begin to write?
AW: As you know I am from Fathepur, a small town in Uttar Pradesh. In my time I can say that life was simple and there was no communal acrimony, no riots. Everybody lived peacefully with each other. Then I went to Aligarh University to study. There I came in touch with the liberal democratic as well as leftist ideologies. There were study circles and culture circles that I attended. I used to listen everybody. One of the more interesting arguments that we would often have was if God existed or not. Naturally these used to be very heated arguments, often resulting in fights. The arguments put forth by the atheists appealed to me more as there was reason and logic in them. My family was not too religious either, so I found myself veering towards the atheists. After finishing my BSC, I realized that I didn't want to continue with Science, so I did my Masters in Hindi. But doing a Masters in Hindi at Aligarh University was not so easy. We Hindiwallahs were ridiculed by the Urdu students who thought their language was richer and that it had more culture. I didn't enjoy my lectures either. They were boring, taught by a bunch of teachers who just wanted to finish their jobs. But my time at Aligarh University influenced me a lot. Those were my formative years.
In 1964, I wrote my first story for a magazine called 'Kalpana' from Hyderabad. It was a political satire. I did nukkad plays with the group Nishant in Delhi. One of them was called SAB SE SASTA GOSHT. It was about Hindus and Muslims fighting over the meat of cows and pigs, but when the meat of a human being is thrown in, neither group wants to claim it. My first full-length play was FIRANGI LAUT AAYA which had the mutiny of 1857 in the background. It was a wonderful time when Anil Chaudhari, an NSD guy, who also went on to direct the television serial Kabir, directed my play INNA KI AWAAZ. Each morning we would get up early to meet in a hostel- the entire team comprising actors Kawaljeet, Neena Gupta and others was staying there. I would read them freshly written scenes. Theatre is a collective art. You can't create any borders and you have to let go.
Deepa Punjani (DP): Tell us about your new play GANDHIGODSE.COM
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